What if you actually need to restrict some foods?

[laratwopointo]

Hi Guys,

Like so many others this book has helped me tremendously, although I still binge eat I'm glad that I now have a better understanding of why I binge in the first place.

I have a really big problem with seeing the pro-binge thoughts as not me, I'm still working hard on not emotionally reacting to them.

From reading the book I got, it was made clear that dieting was what caused Kathryn's binge eating in the first place, which was the same case for me. After reading this I had a huge sense of relief because frankly I'm exhausted from dieting. I started to try and eat 'normally' even though I found it extremely hard I'm either eating healthily or binging and I haven't been able to find a middle ground for years. Regardless I didn't give up hope as I still see it as possible to be binge free.

So for the main reason I'm writing the post (I'm a waffler, sorry) I was diagnosed with PCOS a few weeks ago, I'm also insulin resistant meaning I have a higher chance of developing diabetes, the PCOS unmanaged can also lead to a other conditions, obviously I want to avoid all this. I've been advised by my doctor to lose weight by keeping my insulin levels low by using a low carb diet. I've also heard of women totally reversing PCOS by eating a Paleo diet (low carb, organic), so I’m quite keen to follow this way of eating (I’ve tried low carb eating on and off before I was diagnosed). My question is will I ever totally get rid of my urges to binge if I continue on a diet and restrict these foods (I still plan to eat junk foods but just not often). I fear that when I do allow myself to eat certain foods because I am not used to eating them all the time I will always binge on them.

I will appreciate any input, thanks.

[joannezi]

Hi Lara,
I can tell you that from my personal experience, a binge is a binge is a binge, regardless of what type of food/diet you're following. But I do have concerns about what you say, but not for the reasons you think...
I went paleo about a year ago, and before that ate pretty healthy anyway, but I've always had problems with binging and overeating. I started eating low carb/paleo as a way to manage my body because I was quitting a 15 year laxative abuse addiction, and figured this would help reduce bloating/weight gain. Initially I did ok, but it backfired and I was binging on extreme amounts of paleo foods (mainly proteins, jars of almond butter, over 50 eggs... that type of insanity). It got bad and I gained weight and even lost my period... But then I read Kathryn's book and started implementing her method to both binging and overeating urges. Personally I can binge on/overeat anything (broccoli, pizza, cakes, fish, doesn't make a difference). So I started trying to eat intuitively, mindfully, and trying desperately to capture that elusive feeling called satiety. It has taken months (since February), but I haven't binged since (maybe overeaten, and I'm still working on that).
Like I said, I do have a concern regarding the binge urges for you. It sounds to me like this type of diet isn't something you have chosen for yourself, but perhaps I am wrong. Initially it is harder for some to eliminate grains, refined carbs, sugars, legumes, dairy.... For me, I did it somewhat gradually, but like I said, I've always eaten healthily most of the time (definitely ate ice cream, "healthy" pizza, etc, but intuitively avoided too much breads and starches, probably because it was harder to "purge" those), but I did it by choice. I had the exact same concerns regarding whether Kathryn's method would work for me given that I am on a restrictive diet. I kept second guessing myself, and I still do, wondering if I have shifted to orthorexia and this will all backfire.
So far so good. But like I said, this was my choice, so feelings of deprivation have taken a back seat (besides, probably those extreme binges were caused by feeling deprived IN ADDITION to a practically lifelong habit of binging). But binging is a mind game. Not heeding the beast brain's urges is all mind. Eating paleo should never leave you undernourished, and on the contrary, will probably nourish your body more than it's been in the past. So in my mind, any binge urge is a habit. What I do is always check to see if I am craving something in particular, perhaps lacking some nutrient... usually, that's not the case; rather, it's just an urge to stuff my face nonstop for hours.
I hope this helps, I feel like I've babbled a whole lot. Please let me know if you need help!

[laratwopointo]

Hi Joannezi,

Thanks for taking the time out to reply. I really can't say that I ever had the urge to binge on healthier foods, when I have urges to binge its always on very high sugar foods (mainly ice cream). When I eat low carb and keep my insulin levels under control my urges to binge do not arise as much (or even at all) for the first couple of weeks, but when they do its always due to external factors e.g. going to eat a meal with friends. My animal brain makes me feel deprived because my friends always have things that are off bounds for me, so 99% of the time I eat these foods, once I start eating foods that spike my insulin I go down the road of binging regularly all over again. The thing is I really just want to be able to enjoy these foods once in a while, I know that I will not go my whole life without ever tasting ice cream again, that's a very unrealistic expectation. I'm not sure if I should first of all eat normally until I finally stop binging, and then ease myself into a more low carb way of eating.

[joannezi]

Hi Lara,
I completely understand your concerns. Unfortunately I feel I'm in the same boat. I realise that being 100% paleo is unrealistic, and my plan has been to do a 80/20 approach. But so far, I haven't allowed myself to eat those "junk" foods/treats/non-paleo foods mainly because I haven't felt ready to avoid binging on/overeating them. With me, there are certain foods (ice cream, cakes, nut butters, nuts, pizza, etc) that I feel I can only enjoy if I can have A LOT of. It almost feels like torture for me to have just one serving of ice cream, pizza, etc. It's all or nothing with these foods. I'm hoping over time this perception will dissipate. And to tell you the truth, it is starting to. Initially, I felt very strongly that I absolutely had to avoid these foods and focus mainly on not binging and separating myself from the urges. This involved sticking to timed meals and set portions, and not eating after dinner. I already had my work cut out. I read books on "intuitive eating" that discouraged the "off-limits foods" approach, and always doubted myself. But every time I thought seriously about having ice cream, or any other binge food, I found I just wasn't ready. The beast brain was still stronger than me.
So I guess for me, really strengthening my "higher brain" and creating the new non-binging habit has been a priority, until I feel I can tackle the issue of eating normal amounts of treats. I can honestly tell you I've made progress. For instance, in the beginning I was making paleo treats (coconut milk ice cream, pumpkin pie pudding, etc) and have mega portions of those for dinner. I gradually cut down the portions and found I was satisfied with less. So I have hope!
I hope that helps somewhat. How are you doing?

[jess]

I just wanted to chime in on the whole Paleo bingeing thing. I've been doing a version of Paleo for about a month now. I have cut out grains completely (and strangely, I don't miss them at all), and have also cut back on sugar consumption. For the first month, I only binged five times (a record for me), but I still binged on nuts, nut butters, dark chocolate, and dried fruit. This month has been rough; I've binged on all of those things, yogurt, and, last night, ice cream.

What I would suggest is giving it a try, but in a very loosely structured way. For example, tell yourself that you'll cut out grains and dairy for a couple of days, and that after you pass the three day mark you can have a treat if you really, really want it. You may find that you stop craving those things; I genuinely did (until last night, anyway).

Good luck, and keep us updated on your progress!

[mandymell]

I honestly think that you are not going to succeed in resisting urges if you continue to restrict food types. Kathryn's method works when you stop doing this type of eating. For as long as you are following a restrictive diet your body will crave more foods. I really believe you should concentrate on not binging - that must be the priority at first. Once you truly have that sorted, then you can sort out the weight issues if necessary. You really need to get cured of responding to the urge to binge first. That has to be your goal. Let the rest happen later when you are over the urges.
Mandy (UK)

[laratwopointo]

Thanks guy's you've given a lot to think about. Mandy you're totally right. I need to stop binging first before I can slowly change my diet to suit my medical needs. The only time I've truly been able to resist binging is when I was restricting foods, but as soon as I got my hands on any of my binge foods, any notion of eating it reasonably was immediately thrown out of the window. I'm still not comfortable having binge foods around me. If I start eating something it has to be gone today, so tomorrow I can start afresh and not binge (but I usually just run out to the store and get some more food the next day. I'm going to read through the book again. I'm finding this recovery process incredibly hard, but I know that's its possible.

[mandymell]

Lara I too am still not comfortable having former binge foods around me. But the simple answer is just not to have them in the house in the first place. I notice you say how you "run out to the store and get some more food". Well - just don't! I know I am making it sound so easy, but really that is the answer. You make yourself run to the store and buy more binge food. No one else forces you. You can choose not to do that. And then every time you resist that urge, it will be easier the next time.
Mandy (UK)

[joannezi]

Hi,
I've been thinking a lot about this issue of abstinence. It's been very often said that quitting alcohol is easier than "quitting" an eating disorder because you still have to eat, but you don't need to drink. But why is it that recovered alcoholics can't or won't have an occasional drink, even after being sober for decades?
I have personal experience with this because I was an alcoholic myself. I quit on my own almost 10 years ago, and I did it using Kathryn's approach (or Rational Recovery), without ever having heard of these two. It was just intuitive. No AA, no "i am powerless", "I have a disease", etc... Just worked at breaking the habit, by not responding to urges to drink.
I actually never felt deprived. In fact I purposefully surrounded myself with the same people at the same bars, kept the liquor at my home, on hand. None of it was a "trigger" once my "higher brain" determined I simply wanted to quit.
The point is, I never felt deep down that I was deprived because my friends could drink casually but alcohol to me was off-bounds. My animal brain certainly did. My animal brain would tell me I can easily just have one drink. But that's wrong because I know I only drank to get drunk. I didn't drink to enjoy a drink. And even if I did, I still wanted to get drunk.
The same applies to certain foods for me. I eat them to indulge in them. Once my blood sugar skyrockets after the first couple of bites, my animal brain gains strength. And the truth is, my higher brain doesn't really see a point in having a serving of cheesecake. My animal brain definitely sees the point, and wants the whole cake.
So, is abstinence the key with regards to these foods? I definitely don't think it should be, but perhaps in the initial phases for some, it has to be.
I still plan on testing myself with eating some of these foods in moderation, but not until I really analyse whether I want a taste, or the whole 10 servings!
Please let me know your thoughts and suggestions, as I feel so much self doubt!

[fitchic1980]

Heya Lara, Joanne, Jess, Mandy,
Interesting informative thread! I have read Kathryn's book, I can totally relate to it, it makes awesome sense. I feel I got into my binge predicament not through dieting, just a really strong affiliation to food at a very young age. Since my mid to late teens up till now I have 'yoyoed' between being 'in the zone/on track' or not. This affected ny body composition, fitness levels, finances, energy, self respect etc. I have never been naturally slim and feel best and respect myself best when I consider myself fit and 'in the zone'. Along with food, alcohol and indulgent excess spending beyond my means is a problem. I often do OK for a while and feel awesome/on fire but I allow my animal brain to get in the way and return to bingey slothful habits for myself causing rapid fat gain/loss of fitness. Right now to fit my nice clothes and feel near my best I feel I want to drop about 30lbs or 14kg odd. If my focus is on no bingeing and staying within a set drinks limit and ignoring urges I am happy with the rest will fall into place quite easily! Next year I plan to start to study exercise science to head toward a career change so my long term binge/yoyo habit needs to stop for good. I sure know it is possible, believe I can but just need to do this!

[fitchic1980]

I can also relate my 'animal brain' in my desire to study. It rambles stuff to the effect of,.......'only smart fit people study exercise science', 'you have never studied so will fail', 'only long term fit and fit looking people will succeed in the exercise science field', 'being a chronic binge eater I am a fraud, even if I get fit', 'I am not fit enough'. That is animal brain stuff I need to ignore. I know it is possible for me to stop bingeing, drinking too much, pass my study, construct a decent career in the health/sport/fitness field and get and stay fit with looking fit as well! My top brain believes it IS possible and that I can do it but I neef to ignore the automatic animal brain un-useful garbage :-)

[laratwopointo]

Wow Joanne congratulations on your alcohol recovery, it’s very inspiring to think that you were strong enough to do whilst you were still surrounded by it. I deep down think that abstinence is not the key with our binge food, it’s still putting it on that pedestal that makes us want it even more. As far as not having the binge foods in our house, I don’t know if I’m expecting too much but I really thought that by following Kathryn’s method we would be able to have these foods around us and not binge on them (especially as I can’t control all the food that is brought into my house and all the treats that are passed around at work). We really can’t run away from these foods, my ultimate goal is to eat healthily enough that my PCOS symptoms are managed properly and be able to eat not so healthy foods from time to time. And yes fitchic the animal brain can really sound convincing, right now I still find it extremely hard to pick up a binge food without feeling I have to eat a huge amount of it, the animal brain is too strong right now it makes me feel incredibly uncomfortable. No matter how many times I tell myself to see it as junk and the more I ignore it the weaker it will become all that doesn’t seem to matter when I actually have me hands on that food.

[fitchic1980]

Lara, I am hearing you regarding the animal brain! I think your goals sound great by the way. For me my aim I have decided is to aim to be/stay in the zone. The 'zone' or 'on track' is where I feel my best, fittest, most productive, happiest, energetic yet relaxed. It is not overly strict behaviour, my 'in the zone' behaviour allows for flexibility, encourages fun but just outlines some standards I do best if I keep to. I think thw challenge is ignoring the animal brain when it comes along with negative self talk and then those unhelpful urges, but we are stronger than it :-)